The Great Divinie and Meisie The Arhat - On Being - May 31st, 2024

Hi, I'm Tyler Choice. I have a background in hacking and I enjoy reverse-engineering mystic works and ideas. Thanks for tuning in to this discussion!

M: Divinie, Artem said technically, I am an Arhat, not a buddha yet.

Yeah, that’s kind of what I mean I can’t remember if he said I was or not.

But he thought that I developed in the wrong order, and it revealed to me the limited scope of what he can see. I’ve had a basically miraculous life that seems to follow the pattern of the prodigal archetype, And I can see the clear line of progression in my development. It’s a “left-hand” development, an alternate road. Perhaps wrong from a certain perspective, but not wrong from mine.

You may have heard the teaching that there are buddhas who have a personal enlightenment, the small raft, they can fit a few others on the raft,

And those who have a world enlightenment, they can fit others onto a big ship. Artem appears to have had the small raft enlightenment so he will likely struggle to help others on this journey, and he will likely struggle greatly as a teacher throughout his life and be mostly misunderstood.

I noticed this upon contact with him that he would not have much to offer me if he did not have the radical inquiry method, which requires no enlightenment, but is simply a therapy technique.

This is because Artem chose the home enlightenment, he stayed home, he will remain home, and many people will judge him for this. I might say that Artem’s biggest limitation is that he is whole, he is a singular person, a singular self, a singular identity.

This isn’t to say that a person should not have a center, But it is a significant limitation. It’s a limitation because this person may not be able to truly understand others, that others are a village, a multitude of selves.

That in reality, others and this current world are actually the mythological Legion, for we are many, fragmented, schizophrenic.

It will be difficult for Artem to help these schizophrenic people when he is not schizophrenic himself.

This is what Christ means when he says, I did not come here for the healthy, but for the sick.

Artem’s biggest limitation is that he is healthy. A healthy man is going to have a difficult time helping a divided and schizophrenic multitude of people on the micro and macro level. To say, it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick,

Artem is in a difficult situation, He is a doctor, and he is healthy, so he can help healthy people,

But healthy people don’t need a doctor. This might sound paradoxical, But life has to give you the personal experience to be able to address the same issue on the outside for others,

Because necessary understanding is only possible to gain through personal experience.

Artem was right to conclude that I had developed in the wrong order, In that very moment.

But this shows a limitation in vision, We don’t live in a reality that is constant, reality is more akin to a series of projected screens. That means that in order to perceive Reality, you must be able to see a constant underneath projections, or else you will be distracted by each projection and say,

“This projection is the final ultimate truth!”

Worse still, is that if you have not been the witness to the multitude of selves, Then you cannot be the spontaneously arising consciousness, You cannot be that consciousness which spontaneity arises out of.

Bhagwan’s followers would say,

"Bhagwan, why do you sound sad on some days? And then you sound loving on others?"

They couldn’t understand this. They couldn’t understand who Osho was. And so, when I talked to Artem, I manifested one of my projections, one of my selves, the most quiet, the most shy, the most unconfident. That projection was true in that moment, as what was arising.

This led to Artem becoming very surprised at the end of our session, when he said I was not active in his server, how did I find him? He could not recognize that I was the same person, stirring up controversy as Divinie in his chatrooms. Even upon realizing this, he still couldn’t draw the thread between that self and Divinie.

Yet both of those are me, and another person who knows me would say, yes, those are both him. This is also the insanity of the person who believes in what is in front of them. The projection that comes out of a person changes every moment. A person is a sea of faces, if you can’t see the changing faces, Then you are like an amnesiac that continually says, “who are you?” “Where did you go?”

You are then like a person being fooled again every single moment. And this insanity goes further and is hilarious, For a person might, for example, say, “You are not a confident person, so you can’t do X.” The hilarity of this insane person is that they are continually baffled when the person does the thing. Because they cannot understand every single manifestation, every single projection of a human being exists within them and only has to be called out into the next moment.

This is the exact same issue as when a person tries to change themselves, you cannot change a projection. A projection is fixed and absolute. You can only change to a different projection.

And if you change the projection, the scene also changes. And if you change the projection, the scene also changes.

In this way, The only people who move forward in their lives are people who have mastered switching to better projections. This is the same reason why a successful person says, “I don’t know how I got here into this successful life. I was in this other life and then suddenly I’m in this completely different life.”

It’s because they switched to a different version of themselves which shifted the scene to a different story.

The projection, the version of self comes first, then the outward reality shifts to reflect that inward reality. And this is the same reason the average person gets stuck, Every single day they are switching through a multitude of projections that all have different interests and desires and goals, They are pulled up down left and right and so they remain fixed stuck in the middle. There are only two ways out of this.

The two ways are:

You either become a dictator, You give one fragment of yourself so much power that it drives the entire ship and all other parts are silenced,
Or you become an outsider, that allows all spontaneous guests to have a place. This is Rumi’s guest house.
You can see that this is the case with yourself easily by looking at how you listen to music. You listen to the same playlist that you have been listening to for years. You attempt to go on the same emotional ride as you have gone before. Why? It is because the songs evoke versions of yourself that you like. So you go through your songs, Switching through versions of yourself, yet not applying those versions to long-term goals and tasks.

M: I have one question for you. Do you agree that everything your mind tells you is a lie? If yes, will you be able to accept that everything you wrote above is untruth?

You are speaking on the level of the mind’s beliefs. When you say, “agree,” what you mean is, “believe.” When you say, “a lie,” what you mean is, “unbelief.” I am not speaking from belief or unbelief, I am speaking from direct experience and understanding through the energy of my essence. To be more clear, my mind is not speaking.

M: Nope. Everything your mind tells you is false. Reality is truth. You put too much weight on what your mind tells you.

Question yourself on the statement you have just made,

  • Where does it come from?
  • Is this a statement that you remember is true?
  • Is this a statement that you logically concluded and you are now repeating?

Such a statement is what is called false, it is the repetition of a memory.

M: It tells you you are a prodigy and you believe it. It tells you god is consciousness and you believe it. It tells you you are god and you believe it. It tells you you are Divinie and you believe it.

No, I don’t. I clearly stated that I recognized that that is a pattern. It doesn’t mean it’s the only pattern or that the pattern is infallible. And no, there is no Divinie. There has never been a Divinie.

M: But this is Divinie saying this, is he not?

Please ask yourself these questions in reference to your statement,
“Everything your mind tells you is false.”

Divinie is just a construct, like language. Are you English? Or do you use English?

May I ask why you don’t want to ask those questions to yourself that I have listed? Who is Meisie right now? Who does she want to be? What is the desire? What is the agenda? What is the hope? What is the expectation that you hope to have? What is the fear that you hope does not happen? What is the way that you do not wish to be perceived?

We are playing two different games right now. Your game is feeling a certain insecurity about yourself that you do not want to have.

M: It doesn't matter what I answer, because they're all false and lies, even me being an arhat, unfortunately.

This is called, hoping for an indefensible position to escape being attacked. It’s avoidance. Those questions will not hurt you; you cannot be hurt.

M: Sure I can answer them, but where will it get us?

Please answer them.

M: Meisie is an enlightened arhat among many things.
She wants to be gone completely, eradicated. She wants to disappear without a trace, to get enlightened, super enlightenment, the hope that she gets enlightened more, to get enlightened, that she doesn't get enlightened, that she's not enlightened.

These are all untruths. It's all delusion and false. Why even bother? What did we achieve? (Answers in order of the questions)

Is the statement that it’s all delusion and false a truth remembered that you are repeating? Observe that, are you that memory? If you’re not that memory, is there distance between you and that memory?

M: No, it's a knowledge I have arrived at on my own with much suffering experienced.

Is that knowledge being recalled? Are you recalling it? Where are you recalling it from? Are you that? Is there a difference between you and that knowledge?

M: Nope, I am the body, and definitely a lot of distance now.

So look in the opposite direction of you from that memory. Who is there? What is its nature?

M: As long as the mind can speak it, it is not true knowledge.

Without thought I mean, just looking at it, that empty place that’s the opposite direction from the memory. Can you change that empty place? Can it be changed? Can you alter it? Is there anything you can do about it? Can it be destroyed?

M: This is consciousness. Awareness. God. Nature. Life. Being. I know what you wanna teach me, that I am consciousness, god, a being of pure compassion and unconditional love, that I am everything, I am everyone. I am the deepest form of love. But this is also untruth, this is still a dream, a form of deep dreaming that enslaves.

So that being, if you notice that you cannot change it, if you rest your attention on that, then there is no need to fear being cut down. Only the mind can be cut down. The mind hopes to erect a thought or belief that is indestructible so it can’t get hurt, but you are not the mind, you are not destructible.

M: A slave of love.
M: I am definitely not the mind, nor this awareness. Awareness is a helpful vehicle to see through the ego, but when its job is done, you also have to drop it. That's why U.G. Krishnamurti said, if you are aware that you are aware, you aren't aware at all.

So you’re good.

M: No, I'm saying, who I am is the body. The body you can actually see. It is as real as you can get. You can pinch it.
You cannot pinch Meisie, where even is she? She's an illusion.

You don’t have to believe, “I am indestructible.”

You don’t have to think, “I am indestructible.”

You can test it with direct experience, try to destroy your being, it doesn’t work.

M: Of course, I've been through this stage. We even talked about it in the DMs, remember? We talked about how we are god and everything that exists is I.

Yes, so try to harm that which you cannot even locate, it is impossible. So there is no reason to hold up thoughts and beliefs as defenses.

M: It is very much possible; the ego suffers greatly.No need to. When you merge with consciousness, you become it. The mind expands along with it, and the mind becomes the consciousness itself.

The mind Meisie? or the body Meisie?

Try to pinch Meisie, where even is she? The same Meisie you were referring to when you wrote that sentence.

M: The mind Meisie I can't; the body is busy typing letters at the moment.

It’s not possible to harm. You are not possible to harm.

M: That’s not very compassionate to say, Divinie.

You’re not understanding my words. What I mean is, the reason why you can’t is because you are unable to harm that which cannot be harmed.

M: But you are not that. Self is not the consciousness only.

Yes, you are That. That’s all you’ve ever been and that’s all you can be.

M: You've arrived at your being, but this is just the very beginning of a spiritual path. You will soon discover that you are also not that. You are consciousness and the emptiness because one cannot exist without the other, but you will also transcend not that and even transcend transcendence.

And how does this matter to you what you’re saying? How does that help you not become hurt?

M: Oh believe me, the last thing I want is to run away from hurt. Where it hurts, I go there, and I find more ego. Are you doing the same thing? Or does it keep you from hurting when you tell yourself you are that? I'm just throwing back your question. When it comes to the pursuit of truth, the best thing we can ask is, what if I'm wrong? What if I'm wrong about "I am that"? This is the way I hurt myself. I do this repeatedly and realize that everything I say, everything my mind tells me... is wrong. That my whole life is a lie. That I have dreamed my existence. It's very painful to realize that.

It's the most painful thing one can ever experience.

Not at this time, as from a different angle, it’s not about what, not about what is right, but about a way of being. It takes years of work. It will be much easier for you and much less time because you’ve already gone up so high on the path.

What if no one is healthy? What if everyone is schizophrenic and deluded? I'm sure there are levels to this, but if someone believes a mind, a voice (although it's their own voice) that doesn't exist in reality, isn't that person also schizo?

They are, yes, at least by definition. It could also be said that the very word itself is an unhealthy way to think because it's based in judgment.

M: I've seriously haven't met anyone who was as merged as you are with being, you are prodigious in that regard. When I have had a glimpse of it, I immediately messaged Artem saying, "I found it! I found it! I know who I am! I am enlightened!" He congratulated me and immediately hurt me saying, "But you aren't done yet. It is just the beginning." So I let it go, as painful as it is, and continued further down the path.
M: I feel like I skipped it and didn't really marinate myself in it. I constantly go back to just witnessing my thoughts, to being my thoughts again, to being consciousness, to emptiness. I'm all over the place, really. I just do whatever feels right, find teachers everywhere, especially the ones who could show me where it hurts, like you.

That’s okay. What matters is you’ve made contact so you’ll make contact more and more often. Life and the universe are working with you.

M: Thank you for this conversation, thank you for all the hurt. I wanna share a quote Artem sent me today: "Increasing distance to thought can only be achieved by shrinking distance to sensate experience." I don't know who needs this, but I'm just gonna drop it here for you guys.

Thank you too, Meisie The Arhat!

The specific process I used to merge with being:

  • In 2019, I learned reflective listening.
  • In 2020, I listened to the recorded voice of Osho.
  • After 6 months, I learned to listen and just be one with, intimate with Osho’s voice and silence.
  • This would produce the quality of rest and enjoyment of being with experience, necessary to remain in being.
  • I spent great lengths of time in silence and my own complete emptiness.
  • I took long walks along the ocean in silence and presence.
  • In 2022, I entered the world again and practiced being a silent, reflective mirror daily.
  • Osho said there would be a point when the mind stops clinging, and that it would either let go completely, or attempt to cling to Osho. When this point happened, I let go completely and did not cling to Osho, though feeling a deep love.
  • In 2023, I made brief contact with Vishrant and was exposed to a person’s presence that is existing in being-ness.
  • In 2024, I used Gurdjieff’s awakening technique through Mami Onami. This caused a permanent change to my experience of being.

M: Got inspired by this, and i'm now taking a vow of silence, at least online. Goodbye for now guys.